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Sentimental yet sardonic [userpic]

Feedback of the negative variety: Mini-rant

June 6th, 2004 (09:52 am)

current mood: curious

Firstly, I forgot to do the normal announcing here that The Slayer in Question is now up "At TtH" and also at the Pit Of Voles.

So anyhow, I'm starting to get feedback.

I honestly don't believe it. I never bought the thing where they don't trust Angel just because they run Wolfram & Hart. After all if not for the amulet that came from them Buffy's army of Slayers would've been overrun by the much larger army of Ubervamps. And just dismissing the claim of Fred's dying. If Willow really cared about Fred she would've checked personally. And of course there is the fact that death doesn't mean staying dead in the Buffyverse. And finally the fact that Angel could easily check with other heads of Wolfram & Hart branches about the Rome branch if he was really evil. It's well written but the plot doesn't hold up to examination in my opinion

Well, at least he thought it was well written. And he might have a slight point on the Fred's dying bit. But I'm stuck by what's been shown or mentioned on screen. Angel season 5 clearly moved Buffy, Dawn and Andrew to Italy, and that the Scoobies/the Watcher's Council no longer trusted Angel and the others. That's canon - I cannot change that, much as I wish. And Fred's death? When they phone and ask for help, Giles says Willow's busy. Giles! Probably the scoobie with the most intense dislike of Angel/Angelus ever since "Belonging". If he thinks Angelus is back, he won't be doing a thing to help. It's canon - you can't just pick and choose which parts you're going to use.

The same guy left a similar review on Laney's Fragile Existence. He seems very much to have a particular view of the characters, and anything that doesn't agree with it must be wrong. And look! He has no stories up on TtH. I really don't mind negative feedback from other writers and authors that criticises, cos those I learn from. But people who don't put their money where their mouth is...?

Moving on to the Pit of Voles stuff...

Interesting story, makes Buffy and crew look even worse than the original "The Girl in Question" did. Mind doing a follow up where they realize just how much they have screwed up, i.e. Fred's death and the obliteration of Angel and crew.

This one's not so bad. There's the request/demand for a follow-up which ain't going to happen. The whole idea of the story was to have it be a counterpoint to "The Girl In Question", so a sequel doesn't make sense. But the rest of it is a matter of opinion - I think it puts Buffy at least, in a better position than "TGIQ" left her in. Sure, she's moved on, but at least now she's not repeating the same mistakes as before. Part of my problem with that episode was that it portrayed her as not knowing or caring what was happening around her anymore, just caught up again with an older creature of the night.

I'll have to leave that one up to the readers themselves. But I tried to do the Scoobies justice.

Well, youve really turned the enitre BTVS group into a bunch of moronic bullies, her friends are again trying to lead her life for her. And have no idea whats going on in L.A. You have them messing with Angel and Spike. And it just makes no sense. Im sorry, theres just nothing redeeming about this story.

Apparently, I didn't do them justice. Moronic bullies?

I got nothing to say. *sigh* Apart from the fact that they have no stories up at the Pit of Voles, and they're a BS shipper.

I think this all goes down to the episode in question. People either loved or hated Angel season 5, episode 20. There are no in between fans.

And when you have fics like mine trying to explain away what I consider to be problems with it, conversely you will have the people who loved it hating my fic. Maybe that's a simplistic idea, but hey! People are strange after all. :)


Posted by: Marcus L. Rowland (ffutures)
Posted at: June 6th, 2004 03:14 am (UTC)

I liked the story, my personal feeling is that the episode itself is the problem. You've done your best to salvage it, but there is too much wrong with the original story.

Posted by: Sentimental yet sardonic (booster17)
Posted at: June 6th, 2004 06:08 am (UTC)
subtext [jidabug]

It's also the timing of the episode itself. Had that been done about halfway through the season or earlier, and say put a Harmony subplot in, instead of Fred/Illyria and Wes, I think people would have liked it more.

Posted by: Marcus L. Rowland (ffutures)
Posted at: June 6th, 2004 06:38 am (UTC)

Yes, it would have worked pretty well around the time of Harm's Way.

Posted by: Tara (elementalv)
Posted at: June 6th, 2004 04:17 am (UTC)

I knew Jason was the one who left that e-mail. And yes, he does have a tendency to go off when he's convinced that someone is messing with his interpretation of the characters.

I received these two from Jason for TKW: Help Wanted:

Chapter: The Key\'s Watcher 2: Birthday Girl

Review By: N/A
Review Date: 2003-07-08
Rating: N/A

A good story ruined by a senseless Willow going evil plot. It doesn't even fit with the earlier statements as Buffy's comment to Giles "I didn't like it on Willow," suggests Willow's flirtations with dark magics was over. Also you dream sequence suggested events played out out similarly to season 7 in the real world. And finally if the balance of good and evil in her world have been destabalized what kind of Slayer hides out as a ghost to avoid coming back, allowing her world to go to hell? She even admits she knows it's been destabalized unlike her ridiculous claim in season 6 that all her friends were safe. It would been better just to make the only change Buffy dying at the end of season 7. Buffy could've floated a loan from someone besides Giles, besides the fact living alone she wouldn't have needed as much money. Hell she could've sold her house to Xander and Anya and bought their apartment. And after Tara's death Willow would've sucked up some unknown member of the coven just as readily as Giles. Or they could've recrutied Wesley who was on the outs at AI.


Chapter: The Key\'s Watcher 2: Birthday Girl

Review By: N/A
Review Date: 2003-07-09
Rating: N/A

I sent you an e-mail, I'm guessing you're not responding so I'll explain her why Buffy being dead should be negotiable.

One, dreams that tell them what happened are fine, but if' she's going to be in their lives she should be in therilives. As a ghost who can pop up anywhere, anytime it's a tease. She comes in tells them they're doing something they shouldn't be and goes away.

I don't know anything about ghosts in the Anitaverse so I don't know if people can just banish them. But if they can't she becomes almost Mary Sue-ish with what we;'ve seen of Jossverse ghosts. First of all when she gets solid she apparently still has Slayer strength. Ghosts are capable of possessing people as we saw with James and Grace and in James case while recreating his death he was able to summon up the cause of it, his gun. They can apparently appear and talk selectively as with Dennis' mother and move things with out physically touching them like Dennis. So she can just pop up whereever she needs to be and do whatever she feels like to take care of Giles and Dawn's problem and then go away.


My point is that he's a twink (one step beyond and below a twit). Ignore his reviews, and you'll be fine.

Oops! Almost forgot to mention that your club ring is in the mail.

Posted by: Sentimental yet sardonic (booster17)
Posted at: June 6th, 2004 06:05 am (UTC)
Fred Bend over [Lil Amy]

Oh, I laughed when I saw it. Most of his problems were the stuff that ME had mentioned in Angel, rather than what I'd come up with.

I strongly suspect that if I had invented them, he'd be complaining about how Buffy would never move to Italy and start partying with Immortals.

Posted by: liz_marcs (liz_marcs)
Posted at: June 6th, 2004 05:45 am (UTC)

See, I rather liked it. I could see your goal very clearly:

How can you work within BtVS canon and still put another twist on TGiQ. If you work within canon it can be a bit of bitch to do that (oooooh yeah). The thing is canon left you with:

1) Giles and the other Scoobs know about Wolfram & Hart, so them thinking that Angel is edging back to Angelus is not an unreasonable thing to be worried about.

1a) Even if it wasn't Angel personally they didn't trust (please, no way that won't happen with Giles and Xander), good call taking Dana.

2) At least this story didn't have a teary-eyed Buffy begging forgiveness to Angel and/or Spike when it was over.

3) As for the Scoobs being "bullies," ummm, last I checked Angel pretty much has the Wolfram & Hart firepower. Call it an even match. If he used his brain, he would've found the real Wolfram & Hart. Since the ep didn't have Angel or Spike using their brains, that's also canon.

4) Living Buffy's life for her? It was her blasted idea!

4a) Unless they're pissed they didn't tell her about Spike, but since canon was that Buffy didn't contact Angel or Spike, and Buffy would've if she found out Spike was alive, than I really don't know how you could've handled it better.

4b) Dawn's reasoning was good regarding Spike, and I'm not sure she was completely wrong.

I don't understand that FB at all. Personally, I thought Buffy was placed in a much better light since she was still doing her job instead of partying the night away like in the episode in question. It even put Angel and Spike to a certain extent in a better light since pheromones affected them, too. The Scoobies, I admit, can be questionable for some people depending on where the reader is coming from. I personally didn't have a problem with them.

The story was fun, like watching a Warner Brothers Cartoon where Buffy gets to be Bugs Bunny, Spike gets to be Wile E. Coyote, Angel gets to be Elmer Fudd, and the Scoobs get to cover everything in between.

I read it for what it was and enjoyed it immensely. Then again, I adore "I Don't Like Mondays," so this sense of humor and Scoobie closeness is completely up my alley. :-)

Posted by: Sentimental yet sardonic (booster17)
Posted at: June 6th, 2004 06:02 am (UTC)
Quibbler gay werewolf [fiction alley]

Oh hell yeeeeah, canon can be constraining.

The whole pheromones idea was mainly trying to explain away the flashbacks. Poor Darla and Dru. (Though Spike yelling "Son of a bitch!" still cracks me up thinking about it). I just liked the whole idea of the Scooby gang being protective of Buffy, but still not managing to resist settling their own scores along the way.

But thanks for picking up on the whole farce type feeling I tried to put in there. The whole in one door, out the other type of play was what I wanted, though the Looney Tunes likeness is intriguing. I'm picturing Xander as Pepe Le Pew now...


Posted by: Laney (laney_1974)
Posted at: June 7th, 2004 05:23 am (UTC)

And Fred's death? When they phone and ask for help, Giles says Willow's busy.

I still haven't watched the Slayer in question, so I haven't read your fic, but I have seen Shells where Giles says no to Willow helping them.

I'm sorry, but I have no pity for them. THEY made a deal with the devil, now they're paying for it. And why, for heaven's sake, would they send Willow to W&H? She's recovered from her magic addiction etc, but that would be possibly the most stupid thing ever. Wesley said, 'nothing is ever free from W&H' or something along those lines. I really can see the Scoobies POV for not trusting Angel. I wouldn't. (But then, you know the issues I have with that whole W&H arc).

However, that's the whole thing about canon. Whether we like it or not, that's how they acted. (And I agree with the Scoobies).

I wouldn't let our mutual reviewer's words bother you too much. I think he wants to Scoobies to be like they were in Season 2/3.

Posted by: Sentimental yet sardonic (booster17)
Posted at: June 7th, 2004 03:31 pm (UTC)
Wes dream [houses7177]

It's a simple enough choice on canon I think - you either use it and play with it properly, or feel free to ignore it at will.

Either way, make it clear in your fic what you're doing. I think most of us crossover fans are canon fans - otherwise what's the point of doing the crossover?

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